Absolutely 1/2 wheel - great post

Love the racing for the racing, whether its the TdF or the Tour of Poitou-Charentes (where I've seen the likes of Tafi, Jalabert, Landis and Wiggins ride in front of huge crowds in a race Steve'll never have heard of) - but I'd turn out to see a race whoever was riding.

The Archers GP has gone because the police just don't see the point in pro cycling - maybe they'll only make the effort if there are big names for them to see, not just the domestic pros?

Does Steve L even ride a bike?

this 1 of the best post's i 've read for a long time well done.

Ah Steve you answer your own post son.

Will you watch the Tour (France ??), maybe, maybe not, says it all because we will be watching come hell or high water.
You have your choice to watch all the other sports and their "Druggies" and we prefer our sport which is so far in front of them with trying to clean the Drugs out.

You invite who you want in your home or party and the ASO/UCI row is over that right. It's very simple.

Knee deep spectators dwindling, Nah not a chance as this French Cycle Race has been going for 100 years and it is a Holiday Carnival that not even Blocked roads can stop.

Huw is maybe confused, that he thinks you are American where "Trek" bikes come from and are sponsors of the "Astana Team".
Trek want their bikes in the Tour de France and spend a lot of money stirring the (brown stuff - well Mr Magoo is watching)(the same stuff that hits the fan) to get people like you wound up.

I think I have seen something on the way for Kloden which is left over from last year so he may get a ban anyway.

Oh I've been in Belgium spectating cycle races that are not in the UCI calender, but are very well supported by Public, Media and sponsors.
There are many more there in March and the ASO have one of theirs next week.

Do call again if you have other Questions and Huw or B/girl will sort you out.

On checking to see who registered LetLeviRide.com domain it is actually by Trek, see below, Leipheimer claimed to have started this campaign himself.

Who is Record

Registrant:
Trek Bicycle Corporation
(DOM-1745459)
801 West Madison Street
Waterloo
WI
53594
US
Hope this helps to enlighten you, Steve.

In 2006, without testing positve, the 2 top Tour favourites, Basso and Ullrich, were left out.

In 2001, the Tour organisers decide not to invite either Marco Pantani or Mario Cipollini, the then undisputed king of the sprinters.

Did we have any of this vitriol, then?
I think not.
This is not new. Prior to the Pro Tour, the Tour always selected teams and never had to field a reason. They own the race. They own the right to choose. It does upset various groups. It has in the past and it will in the future.
Just as they have the right to choose who rides, the general public have the right to choose to watch, or not.


Btw, Kloden is in deep water over T Mobile's blood doping before the very same race.

Wow, sexism and xenophobia in two posts - well done lads, you must be so proud of yourselves and your prejudices.

Steve, if you believe that Wiggins was a serious contender I feel sorry for you. The fact that some people were there because they thought he was a serious contender absolutely proves my point about the Tour's demographic. What you're forgetting is that, unlike the other 'professional' events you allude to, watching the TdF costs nothing. The money in the sport comes from the sponsors and what kind of sponsors are they - pregnancy tests and flooring. Sponsors who aren't trying to appeal to die hard sports fans, just ordinary consumers. This is quite different to the audience for other sporting events who have generally paid a hefty whack to attend and are a captive audience for targettted advertising.

Perhaps the viewing figures for last year's race would interest you:

USA-Versus TDF viewership (1st half 2007 TDF) = 219,779 households
France TDF viewership (Daily stage average over 3 weeks) = 4 million up to 5.3 million for the end of the stage
Germany viewership averages = 1.7 million
UK viewership averages = ~400,000

You also say you want to see the 'best' cyclists like Kloeden - a racer with negligible palmares - if he represents the best the sport has to offer the heaven help us. Let alone his reputation as one of the sport's uberdopers, a man whose managed the extraordinary feat of being excluded from 2 of the last 3 Tours...

What's the end result of the UCI/ASO conflict; a partially fixed race until a frenchman wins?

huw-b of all the things I was saying what you stated were absolutely not among them. Trek? What are you talking about?

I watch sporting events -- particualry professional events, to see the best atheletes compete against the best atheletes. So what this has to do with Americans or the Tour of California I have absolultely no idea. I did watch it, will continue to watch it.

Will I watch the Tour, maybe, maybe not. Will it be the best race in the world without the best riders? No. Seems like a fairly simple concept.

And -- as an aside, personally I was rooting for Koden. Not Levi.

Why don't we just get to the bottom line? ASO is simply using Astana as this years pawn in their continuing struggle with the UCI. Unfortunately for the rides and integrity of the race, Astana makes a convenient pawn from the ASO perspective. Now if ASO didn't invite the Colfidis team, I would have a different opinion.

>>> How many of the spectators in London were there because they were serious fans? And how many were there because it was a nice day and there'd been plenty of hype and there were a few Brits to cheer on?

The plenty of hype being they were seeing the best cyclists in the world in the biggest race in the world -- if there had been plenty of hype to come out and see some second rate French continental teams, or for that matter, Bianchigirl and a couple of your girl-pals pedal around, do you think they still would of come?

As I recall Wiggins and Millar were supposed to be serious contenders, so your "having a couple of Brits to cheer on" is not entirely an accurate representation. You may think I don't understand the Tour, but you certainly don't understand sport and what motivates people to watch it.

Maybe where we disagree is whether the Tour is sport or as you state "an exercise in geography and culture".

If it is sport then it needs to be conducted fairly whcih means let the riders ride and not be pawns in an ASO/UCI struggle for power.

But the Tour isn't like any other athletic event - not in terms of its length, or its history, the way it plays out, the tactics or the curious way that it's a team sport with an individual winner. Neither Armstrong nor Lemond are bigger than its 100+ year history. The viewing figures in America - and the UK - are miniscule compared to those in mainland Europe. We are not the demographic of this race, we are not the audience that ASO needs to keep interested. It's the millions and millions of Europeans who turn out for the whole fun of the fair, for the 10 seconds they see the race hare past at break neck speed (unless you're perched on a climb), the leisurely apero in a bar afterwards watching the stage finish.

What many people don't understand is that the GTs are not about the die hard fans - we are in a minority - they're about the casual punters who come out and catch a keyring and have a picnic. How many of the spectators in London were there because they were serious fans? And how many were there because it was a nice day and there'd been plenty of hype and there were a few Brits to cheer on?

If you don't understand that about the Tour - or that great rivalries can be manufactured out of unknowns - or that people can tune in every year without ever watching another peddle turn then you don't, I'm afraid, understand the race, its culture, or its demographic. At the end of the day, it's a national treasure and the French will always support it. What will ensure the destruction of the TdF and cycling as a sport is to allow the kind of doping free for all, the win at any cost attitude, of teams like Astana not banning those teams and allowing young blood to compete.

If it truly is all about the athletes for you, then you should be delighted that another new name might emerge, rather as Contador did last year. You should be cheering on a cleaned up sport which is truly about athletic endeavour. Instead, I'm afraid what you want to see is the dope enhanced circus that Armstrong and his cronies have made of the race.

I stick with the Tour of California, then, if I were you. As Long the US can supply another winner after Levi has retired, it will soon surpass the Tour in stature.
At least, that what it sounds like you're saying.
Now, who is that needs to get real?
Let Trek ride is what it's really all about

Contador was interviewed, today, before his race and he really isn't that bothered.
He's quite happy to ride the Olympics, Worlds and Vuelta.
Leipheimer meanwhile, has been advertising EPO throughout his "Big season's win."

An athletic event is all about the atheletes. If you follow your line of reasoning people would still travel all over the world to watch the world cup if they threw a bunch of scrubs in there? I think not. Or the Olympics? Get real. People want to watch and will pay to watch the best.

As to the tour surviving as you wax so eloquently about, it might be knee deep in spectators for a year or two, until the novelty of unexciting racing wore off. The televison money would immediately dry up however. Why would anyone want to sit glued to a TV in mid-summer to watch a bunch of hacks? And the fans would quickly see that it was not all that exciting watching the local race club go up a mountain at 6KPH -- heck they could do that closer to home.

Would the tour survive? Sure, as a quaint French event favored by a few odd foreigners with handles like Bianchigirl.

Would it be the global money maker it is? No,

Finally, the reason ASO and the UCI are fighting so fiercely is because of the money. The tour really has gotten on the world stage, with the big money in the late 80's and 90's. Did big Tex make the tour? No. Did he make the tour what it is today, love it or hate it? Yes. absolutely, he finished what Greg Lemond started, for better or worse.

And this is coming from someone that really does not like Lance.

Let Levi, Klodi and Alberto ride!

"no one rider makes the Tour great,but the Tour can make or break a great rider"
I agree totally with bianchigirl - the Tour will always be more important than any rider.
As each Tour is completed new heroes will emerge and new history will be created.Alpe d`Huez and the other great climbs will still be there to be conquered.All we should wish for is a great competitive race . Watching Lance clinicly dispose of the opposition for 7 years did have its moments but I`d much prefer a real tight contest going down to the wire - with whoever emerges as the best riders over the 3 weeks.

It's not the field that makes the Tour and the Giro great - you could have a bunch of cat 3s riding and the route would still be knee deep in spectators. Why? Because of what a GT represents historically and culturally to a country, because of the collective memories, because of the atmosphere, because of the buzz of sitting by the road on a perfect summer's day waiting for the race to come by. It's the race that draws millions to the roadside in May and July, not any one rider - and Armstrong didn't change that.

The spectator experience may be very different in the US - after all the races are very much younger - but you can't transpose experiences of a celebrity led culture onto the Tour. Love the racing for the racing, not because it might be an opportunity to see a particular rider.

And remember, no one rider makes the Tour great but the Tour can make or break a great rider

Jared Zee, I take it.
Sorry to break the news, but the Tour is bigger than it's riders, Big Tex included.
Better get used to the fact that it's podium isn't the 51st State.
I suggest instead of following this old soviet rubbish, try supporting an actual US squad, called Slipstream. It actually has an American in charge.

Of course, unlike Johan's lads, they probably are riding clean, so, are unlikely to win the only race you care about, over there.

If you want to blame somebody, then blame Lance, not the ASO. Tailwind (his lot) dumped Bruyneel in the s**t, by pulling their sponsorship.
Time for Disco fans to realise they are trying to live in the past. Move on and stop moaning.

Must be another rainy night in Georgia.

Aw hell, I missed the main point for jarrez,!!!!!!

The days of the mighty Dollar are coming to an end, or had you not realised that it will follow the once mighty UK Pound (or Stirling as it was).

The Chinese went to Washington last November and as you say, they kicked arse there and according to "USA Today" they gave notice.
That if the USA did not review their Trade sanctions then the chinese would offload huge amounts of Bonds and Securities to bring the $$$ to it's knees.

Maybe capital hill thought they were joking and that is one reason why the s..hi...t hit the fan on Wall Street with all the talk of recession.

There, there keep dreaming.

GEORGIA :- now isn't that the place "Stalin" was born ?????

This WU merchant must be "chad" again, poor sod.

Lives on lookout mountain I presume and dreams how the cavalry never got there to save him.

Lets see now that I do believe 2 world wars did not stop the European Cycle Racing Season from continuing and the Irish dreamer will not either.

If you want a worthless Tour with 1st and 3rd who have never been convicted of anything out of the Tour, then they are right. I am just glad I may get to see the best riders in the world in person at the Tour of Georgia, Georgia!!! That is a laugh. My little south east corner of the US will have a better field than the tour. So basically 2 of the 3 grand tours are making a statement. What it could end up being though with more $$ in the US that eventually, years from now we could be seeing the begining of the end of the Grand Tours being Grand. They may just be 3 week races with other races in the US, Australia, China, etc. taking over to make a Global Tour. Their shortsightedness could cost them in the long run.

Let Alberto, Levi and Kloden ride. Keep the Tour alive. Honor those who put the Tour together and the Riders who built the mystique. As much as having the best in Georgia is cool for me, its not the Tour, so long as the Tour is still the Tour.

The season is starting proper now and we havn't got to the end of the month yet.

Great stuff BG and nice to see some one come back and I know the others are not far away. (except the BRF in OZ)